P2p or F2p?

[Rihana Pm Me]

If you f2p and p2p regularly, you'd definitely know that p2p pk run-ins take more skill. Let's compare each aspect:

 

Tanking: In f2p, you have swordfish, pizzas, and a staff, and when you get piled, just simply drag back. In p2p you have sharks, brews, pizza/pie, choc bomb, restore, ice barrage, blood barrage, necks, pray switches, and when you get piled, you can barrage back, drag, stay in one spot and tank it, or maneuver to get them clumped.

 

Returning: In f2p, you can either run back or hop from p2p world. In p2p, you teleport to bh/cwars/zombies/obelisk and get right back in the fight much faster than in f2p.

 

Pushing: In f2p, you just run in and start attacking people. In p2p you gotta run in staying spread out while pushing

 

Weaponry: In f2p you got bow and scim, nuff said

 

Numbers: In p2p you can win severly outnumbered. That's all that matters. When people say that you have more people in f2p, that doesn't mean anything because a 50v50 is no different from a 90v90. You still fight the same way.

 

Organization: P2p has the same amount if not more clan organization then f2p does, but on top of that you have your personal skill as well. In f2p, just stick with the purple dots and push when told. In p2p, stick with the purple dots but make sure there is always one square between you and everyone else. There's one major thing that p2p has and f2p lacks. In p2p, you gotta work together with the guys beside you (specing, barraging, tanking, etc). In f2p, you don't gotta worry about that at all.

 

u smart

[Bob]

In p2p everyone can compete that can afford spending $5 a month.

 

In f2p everyone can compete PERIOD. I don't get your point lol?

 

 

I find f2p like communism - it targets the large poor population and trying to even out the "best high lvl pkers" with "low lvl pkers". Difference between a lvl 60 in mith and maxed out pure is no where near the difference it creates in p2p.

 

I'm not gonna lie, I had to re-read this 3-4 times. I couldn't concentrate due to laughing about the comparison to communism. After reading it 3-4 times I concluded that your point was that stats matter more in P2P? Correct but the question is Which do you think weight more on a clan? So the fact that stats matter more is pretty irrelevant.

 

 

I believe p2p is absolutely, by far, takes more skill than f2p due the fact there are SO many things to look for in a p2p war.

 

Hardly skills, more about timing but if you want to call it skills fine. P2P does require more INDIVIDUAL skills.

 

 

If you blink at the wrong time you can die instantly, in f2p even if you are piled you have lots of time to recover and tanking is far easier in f2p.

 

Blink is an awesome skill on WoW, it teleports the caster 20 yards forward, unless something is in the way. Also frees the caster from stuns and bonds. It's pretty ownage, I'm not gonna lie. But to stay on topic, you say it's easier to tank in F2P and also harder to KO (reference to blink lol), therefore you will agree to say that it's much harder to pile in F2P so it requires more teamwork?

 

 

I also noticed that every single person who said f2p on this thread has never been a party of a large p2p pure war (with a few exceptions)

 

Nevermind the blatent contradiction, what's your point?

 

 

 

Which do you think weight more on a clan?

I'm not gonna lie, the question doesn't make much sense and the fact that I'm arguing with the Ex Leader of a clan based around INDIVIDUAL P2P skills about this makes even less sense.

 

I still love you Evil. :D

 

 

 

 

 

Just read Ray's post, it all makes sense and would answer the question "Which takes more skill?" but that's not the question my friend so you went a little off topic there... :confused:

[Evil]

Bob I really cbf replying to every single one of your comments, but really ... I'll do it if i have to :/ lol

 

I'm not gonna lie, I had to re-read this 3-4 times. I couldn't concentrate due to laughing about the comparison to communism. After reading it 3-4 times I concluded that your point was that stats matter more in P2P? Correct but the question is Which do you think weight more on a clan? So the fact that stats matter more is pretty irrelevant.

 

You talked about "every1" being able to compete in f2p. Only people who "cant" compete in p2p are those who are poor not being able to afford p2p

f2p pking = poor people = communism (used as a metaphor to emphasize my point)

(If you know anything communism, it targeted the large amounts of lower class people)

 

I believe clan should largely be valued on quality. That being said quality of members will determine success of a clan in f2p or p2p.

That being said not every successful f2p clan CAN be successful in p2p (no stats+bank required)

However any successful p2p clan CAN be successful in f2p (no reqs for f2p really LOL)

 

Hardly skills, more about timing but if you want to call it skills fine. P2P does require more INDIVIDUAL skills.

 

Who defines "skill?" P2p requires more INDIVIDUAL skills, absolutely, that PLUS all the CLAN efforts and skills. It's everything that f2p requires plus more.

While f2p requires staying together and moving as a unit, p2p requires having a good spread.

Both require good piling

Both require good tanking

P2p is more expensive

P2p needs good stats

=> P2p is harder than f2p

Why do you think most of f2p based clans never p2pd however all p2p clans f2p regularly? because most f2p clans tried p2ping once, failed epically and gave up

 

But to stay on topic, you say it's easier to tank in F2P and also harder to KO (reference to blink lol), therefore you will agree to say that it's much harder to pile in F2P so it requires more teamwork?

 

Nope. It takes more people to pile in f2p but it takes certain knowledge on how to proprly pile in p2p.

All you have to do is right click and join a pile in f2p

While in p2p you have to take a lot of other factors into account.

 

You don't die fast in p2p because 1 person can KO you. You die fast in p2p because one person can skillfuly use their weapons as an advantage.

3-4 people in p2p are far more dangerous (assuming they know what they are doing) than 3-4 people in f2p which makes f2p rely heavily on opts

 

Nevermind the blatent contradiction, what's your point?

 

Contradiction? I've been at every single war FOE has been at, which is probably more f2p ones than p2p ones (due to many declinations of p2p wars we f2p'd more)

 

That being said, with everything related to clanning, I believe success in p2p as much harder to achieve than in f2p and therefore weights more on a clan.

[Ray]

Just read Ray's post, it all makes sense and would answer the question "Which takes more skill?" but that's not the question my friend so you went a little off topic there... :confused:

 

My main argument is that p2p is weighted more for clans because it requires more skill, both individual wise and clan wise. F2p clans will try to argue that f2p is weighed more while p2p clans will try to argue that p2p is weighted more in order to achieve credibility for their clan, so we can't exactly depend on the popularity of each server when determining the weightings. But what we can do is analyze the degree in skill involved, and that way we can truly determine a clan's overall strength. I'm not saying f2p is nothing and p2p is everything, being in only f2p based clans, I know the importance of f2p, but I believe the weighting of f2p to p2p should be something like 40:60ish.

 

One other aspect we can consider is fame. Success in p2p brings a lot more fame than success in f2p does. In fact, you pretty much never hear people outside the pure clanning world talk about the f2p clans, only the p2p clans. It may seem like winning wars and run-ins would be the main aspect behind success in clans, but achieving fame is actually very important as well. A way to think of it is pk vids. Look at the most popular pk vids out there. Those pkers aren't the best pkers, but I would argue that they are the most successful overall because there is more to pking than winning fights, fame is a significant achievement.

[Bob]

I'm really not going to address the whole thing again cause it will go on forever and it's just pointless. I will address your conclusion.

 

That being said, with everything related to clanning, I believe success in p2p as much harder to achieve than in f2p and therefore weights more on a clan.

 

I disagree that success in P2P is harder to achieve. I think having members with good stats and rich banks doesn't mean it's "harder". It simply means they invested more time making money and/or training than others. Once you start a fight in P2P, you have some "static variable" like stats and net worth which WILL influence the outcome of a fight. But does it really mean the clan is more skilled? In F2P, you have the same but it's safe to say that wealth and stats don't have the same kind of inpact? On the other hand, F2P puts everyone on the same level.

 

I simply think we don't have the same view on clans. You believe in encouraging your members to train and make money while I encourage my members to practice their tanking, piling, etc. That was very stereotyped but it's more or less how it is.

 

Good night.

 

EDIT: cba to read that now Ray sorry. :(

[Ray]

If I try to explain this, it will be very hard to understand, so I'll give an example. This example will be in pvp/bh, meaning that everyone pretty much has the same gear in p2p. Nobody will be in SS, claws, slayer helms, fire capes, infinity, etc. Every clan can afford ancients, ghostly robes, mystic robes, dds, etc. Richer people can return more, that's pretty much it.

 

Every member contributes up to 100% to the clan

 

In f2p:

 

Gear: 20%

Stats: 20%

Skill: 60%

 

In p2p:

 

Gear: 30%

Stats: 30%

Skill: 40%

 

This is just a rough example, there's no evidence backing up these numbers, it's just to serve as an example. The reason why some people believe f2p takes more skill is because they look at it relatively instead of absolutely. So I'll give an absolute analysis.

 

F2p:

Gear:20%

15%-Full iron with scim/bow

20%-Bind or mith

Stats:20%

15%-70+stat

20%-maxed out pure

Skill:60%

50%-Masser

55%-Knows how to dd

60%-Perfect at tanking,spamming,piling,etc

 

p2p:

Gear:30%

20%-Brings one style with straight food

25%-Brings one style, maybe with a KO wep, with combo food

30%-Brings a KO wep, best food, necks, brews, the works

Stats:30%

20%-70+stat

30%-maxed pure

Skill:40%

10%-Attacks people, woop tee doo

20%-Gets on piles, spams, tanks a bit

30%-Very effective at warring

40%-Tanks 10 ppl at once, KOs perfectly each time, etc

 

 

 

What I'm trying to say with this example is yes, p2p does incorporate a bit more on cash and stats, but very little. For cash, the most expensive gear is like ancient staff, barrages, mystic robes, and dds. It's more expensive than f2p, but most people can still afford p2p return sets. There not many out there that can afford to return in f2p but can't in p2p. For stats, in both f2p and p2p, the damage is linearly dependent on your stats, so it affects f2p and p2p the exact same. The only reasons why I weighted it more in p2p is that not everyone has 94 mage to barrage, and barrage is a bit better than burst. As for skill, there's just so little you can do to make a difference. There has never been a single f2p fight in BH/PVP where the smaller clan won. The most a single individual can put on his plate is showing up; all his other skills only give a slight edge. 50 of the most experienced pures will probably be evenly matched with 60 crappy pures in f2p. In p2p, it's completely different. Yes, cash and stats make a slightly bigger difference, but your skill makes a huge difference. With even levels and gear, I'd say 30 experienced p2pers can be matched up against 60 non-experienced p2pers. Even though there's relatively less skill involved in p2p, there is absolutely more skill involved. In p2p, the static variables of gear, stats, and numbers have an affect, and skill does as well. In f2p, just numbers affects pretty much everything. There is very little to be gained from being skilled.

[Gack]

If I try to explain this, it will be very hard to understand, so I'll give an example. This example will be in pvp/bh, meaning that everyone pretty much has the same gear in p2p. Nobody will be in SS, claws, slayer helms, fire capes, infinity, etc. Every clan can afford ancients, ghostly robes, mystic robes, dds, etc. Richer people can return more, that's pretty much it.

 

Every member contributes up to 100% to the clan

 

In f2p:

 

Gear: 20%

Stats: 20%

Skill: 60%

 

In p2p:

 

Gear: 30%

Stats: 30%

Skill: 40%

 

This is just a rough example, there's no evidence backing up these numbers, it's just to serve as an example. The reason why some people believe f2p takes more skill is because they look at it relatively instead of absolutely. So I'll give an absolute analysis.

 

F2p:

Gear:20%

15%-Full iron with scim/bow

20%-Bind or mith

Stats:20%

15%-70+stat

20%-maxed out pure

Skill:60%

50%-Masser

55%-Knows how to dd

60%-Perfect at tanking,spamming,piling,etc

 

p2p:

Gear:30%

20%-Brings one style with straight food

25%-Brings one style, maybe with a KO wep, with combo food

30%-Brings a KO wep, best food, necks, brews, the works

Stats:30%

20%-70+stat

30%-maxed pure

Skill:40%

10%-Attacks people, woop tee doo

20%-Gets on piles, spams, tanks a bit

30%-Very effective at warring

40%-Tanks 10 ppl at once, KOs perfectly each time, etc

 

 

 

What I'm trying to say with this example is yes, p2p does incorporate a bit more on cash and stats, but very little. For cash, the most expensive gear is like ancient staff, barrages, mystic robes, and dds. It's more expensive than f2p, but most people can still afford p2p return sets. There not many out there that can afford to return in f2p but can't in p2p. For stats, in both f2p and p2p, the damage is linearly dependent on your stats, so it affects f2p and p2p the exact same. The only reasons why I weighted it more in p2p is that not everyone has 94 mage to barrage, and barrage is a bit better than burst. As for skill, there's just so little you can do to make a difference. There has never been a single f2p fight in BH/PVP where the smaller clan won. The most a single individual can put on his plate is showing up; all his other skills only give a slight edge. 50 of the most experienced pures will probably be evenly matched with 60 crappy pures in f2p. In p2p, it's completely different. Yes, cash and stats make a slightly bigger difference, but your skill makes a huge difference. With even levels and gear, I'd say 30 experienced p2pers can be matched up against 60 non-experienced p2pers. Even though there's relatively less skill involved in p2p, there is absolutely more skill involved. In p2p, the static variables of gear, stats, and numbers have an affect, and skill does as well. In f2p, just numbers affects pretty much everything. There is very little to be gained from being skilled.

Wow I actually read all that, and have decided you have summed up all I wanted to say.

[`Jade]

Typical P2per response "You're not P2P because you can't afford it".... No. I'm not p2p because its a free game, those that wish to pay more can do so, those that don't wish to.. don't. It has nothing to do with being poor irl, some of us just have better things to spend money on.

In p2p everyone can compete that can afford spending $5 a month.

 

Thankyou for proving my point

[Asher]

Thankyou for proving my point

 

He is right. It is not hard at all to gain P2P stats at all on a basic form, so the only barrier is not being able to or not wanting to pay the fee.

[War Purefare]

Sorry did someone say P2P tanking is hard?

 

P2P:

Quickpray to prot melee -> p neck -> summer pie/rocktail = nice try?

 

 

F2P:

Quickpray prot melee -> spam food combos and hope the hits don't combo you out too fast

 

 

Harder to heal off 14s and 22s than it is to heal off 30+ p2p combo foods + p neck

[`Jade]

He is right. It is not hard at all to gain P2P stats at all on a basic form, so the only barrier is not being able to or not wanting to pay the fee.

He isn't right he clearly said that it's because people can't afford P2p and it clearly isn't.

[Ori]

I have 1 prayer. P2P with my clan is about as cost effective as training with purple sweets.

 

A 200k invent of pots, rocktails, phoneix necklaces etc goes in about 20 seconds for me. If i get a chance to consume any of it that is. F2P is just abit more forgiving.

[Asher]

He isn't right he clearly said that it's because people can't afford P2p and it clearly isn't.

 

Thats the only barrier, not wanting to buy p2p membership.

[I Pa I]

@people that said " P2p all about stats" your wrong.

I rather have someone that knows how to P2p pk than a maxed pure that doesn't know how to pk.

P2p takes a lot more skill than F2p any day.

[Evil]

I disagree that success in P2P is harder to achieve. I think having members with good stats and rich banks doesn't mean it's "harder".

 

If statistically, 9/10 pures cannot afford to p2p pk, how is p2p not "harder" to achieve? Epidemic had over 110 people to f2p trip and dropped to 50 people next day to p2p trip. Now you can blame it on lack of "sign ups" but I think there are different reasons

 

It's a lot harder to build a strong force in p2p than it is in f2p due to lack amounts of pures being able to p2p.

 

It simply means they invested more time making money and/or training than others. Once you start a fight in P2P, you have some "static variable" like stats and net worth which WILL influence the outcome of a fight. But does it really mean the clan is more skilled? In F2P, you have the same but it's safe to say that wealth and stats don't have the same kind of inpact? On the other hand, F2P puts everyone on the same level.

 

Proved my first point even further. Not every f2per can p2p but any p2per can f2p.

 

I simply think we don't have the same view on clans. You believe in encouraging your members to train and make money while I encourage my members to practice their tanking, piling, etc. That was very stereotyped but it's more or less how it is.

 

I believe FOE has had more f2p tanking practices than Epidemic had successful f2p trips this entire year. That's a very arrogant statement. If you have no idea what p2p clans do to "improve" then don't assume.

 

ily2

[U_Dr0p_Whip]

F2P is more skill tbh.

[Stephen]

I personally like f2p but..

 

P2p is definitly Harder because you can use tactics to success even when outnumbered, stuff like surrounding your enemy with returners..etc.

But in f2p you most likely lose outnumbered by 10+

Just opinion ;)

[Ded]

f2p becuz we are #1 f2p

[Gack]

Sorry did someone say P2P tanking is hard?

 

P2P:

Quickpray to prot melee -> p neck -> summer pie/rocktail = nice try?

 

 

F2P:

Quickpray prot melee -> spam food combos and hope the hits don't combo you out too fast

 

 

Harder to heal off 14s and 22s than it is to heal off 30+ p2p combo foods + p neck

You're also forgetting how high P2P weapons hit like 30+ with range and weapon specs that can easily K0 you. Saying that is just ignorant, I can say the same that F2P can easily tank and run back without being frozen there and people would get off you. While in P2P you're frozen to one spot and easily spotted and piled.

[Ray]

Ok, I'm going to end the entire argument about whether tanking and killing is harder in f2p or p2p.

 

Both killing people AND tanking are both more difficult in p2p.

 

First of all, tanking. In f2p, all you can do is put on staff and overhead, combo food, and gtfo. If you are binded, as long as the enemy deals damage faster than your healing rate, you are dead. There is nothing you can do about it. In p2p, no matter how many people are on you, you can tank it. With lower numbers of people, you depend on your own tanking abilities, and with higher numbers of people, you also depend on your clan to get in there and barrage them since they're clumped. The learning curve and degree of p2p tanking is a lot higher than f2p. Yes, I agree that sometimes lucky specs happen, but the difference between okay tanking skill and good tanking skill is the difference between tanking 12-12 specs and tanking 25-25 specs. In f2p, you either tank it or you don't, there is no try. If you die, there was nothing you could have done to live. If you live, there was nothing you could have done to die, well unless you decide just to not tank at all, in which case I have nothing to say to you.

 

Secondly, killing. In f2p, all I do is click on an enemy, sit back with my feet on the desk, and wait til he dies. Maybe if I try harder, I might be able to hit 20's with my bow? I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. You either kill the enemy or you don't, simple as that. The only skill involved is following piles and spamming, and in f2p that's a lot easier than in p2p. Now looking at p2p, to KO someone, you sometimes gotta switch to spec, and according to their overhead, you gotta keep switching styles. On top of that, you gotta watch your ass because you're in enemy territory. When you pull off a 25-25 spec, it was just luck, but you did a lot more work to get that spec than you would in f2p.

[Kruckcrusher]

You're also forgetting how high P2P weapons hit like 30+ with range and weapon specs that can easily K0 you. Saying that is just ignorant, I can say the same that F2P can easily tank and run back without being frozen there and people would get off you. While in P2P you're frozen to one spot and easily spotted and piled.

 

Yes this is true, but will you anyways be hitting that hit? Of course not.

But this is why combo eating and prayer switching come in handy.

Because honestly, if you switch your prayer fast enough they are not going to get a good spec on you.

[Asher]

Why do people keep saying pures can not afford P2P warfare? Get 5 mates camp at a spot and lure your targs until you have enough money lol

[Ray]

Why do people keep saying pures can not afford P2P warfare? Get 5 mates camp at a spot and lure your targs until you have enough money lol

 

Standard p2p sets can easily cost 300k+. Sure almost everyone can afford that, but returning many times in that may be difficult.

[Asher]

Standard p2p sets can easily cost 300k+. Sure almost everyone can afford that, but returning many times in that may be difficult.

 

Two targ kills with 50+ EP will be enough to buy 4-5 returns. I know this because i do it myself

[Scott]

Clans that are **** at p2p think f2p is better, clans that are **** at f2p think p2p is better.

 

Simple.