My View on Defence.

[I x3 Dirt]

20 defense. This discussion has been held time and time again.

[M4G1CA]

If you ever get defence intentionally you are no longer a pure

[Pal]

34 defence with barrows gloves is more pure than 20 defence.

 

1, 13, 34, are the only "pure" defence levels imo, dont see getting def to wear armour "pure".

 

People arent idiots and will obviously draw the line at 39 defence, unless something happens like a new pure + rune pure clans opening and beating pure clans so they start accepting 45 defence too. lulz

 

E: Is someone with barrows gloves, agile etc @ 34 defence less pure than some idiot in full mith and combat brace? Because I've seen those accounts accepted into clans. Even a 20 defence pure with rune gloves, you can have those at 13 defence, why get 20? Whereas 34 defence is purely for the offensive bonus. Sure the defence bonus is a factor but the reason for getting 34 defence is much more "pure" than getting 20 defence to tank longer in wars.

[M4G1CA]

34 defence with barrows gloves is more pure than 20 defence.

 

1, 13, 34, are the only "pure" defence levels imo, dont see getting def to wear armour "pure".

 

People arent idiots and will obviously draw the line at 39 defence, unless something happens like a new pure + rune pure clans opening and beating pure clans so they start accepting 45 defence too. lulz

 

E: Is someone with barrows gloves, agile etc @ 34 defence less pure than some idiot in full mith and combat brace? Because I've seen those accounts accepted into clans. Even a 20 defence pure with rune gloves, you can have those at 13 defence, why get 20? Whereas 34 defence is purely for the offensive bonus. Sure the defence bonus is a factor but the reason for getting 34 defence is much more "pure" than getting 20 defence to tank longer in wars.

 

By your logic 70 defence is more pure than 20 defence since you can use piety. This is the stupidest reasoning I've heard

 

The amount of defence you sacrifice defines purity, not the amount of defence you attain to achieve offensive power.

[Plode]

1 defence is pure, anything above isn't.

 

However, I really hate the way pure clans look at defence now, if you're pking in the wilderness weekly or daily as most pures do, if you bring someone with 25-30 defence with you or even higher and run into a clan you're automatically labeled as "NH MAIN BRINGER NERDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11", I don't see the problem with anyone pking with our clan if they are inside our clans community and we allow them to pk with us for fun (This is the same for all clans, not just my own - can see this post getting flamed by people but it's my honest opinion. Wars are different, as there is set rules to be followed).

 

Probably doesn't make much sense as I just typed whatever I thought of as I thought of it but o well.

[Charlie]

99 is quite pure

[Toby]

I'm not going to do this, But I say 1-35 is fine. At 35 you get barrows gloves, But if you go over that, Even by one level you are a main nub.

You are one sad kid. :drag:

[Lolercats]

Here is how I see it. I wasnt active in the pure community before the wild was removed, even though I had one. I got involved with clans (tlp, this might have somthing to do with my views) during the pcl era. I think 30 defence is pure these days because of curses.

 

99-99-1 95 combat can hit 33 max with whip? Or somthing

60-99-30 with 95 pray is also 95 combat and can hit somthing like 45 with a dscim and takes less damage.

 

The second build can do more dps at the same combat, more pure imo. Flame my views, I dont care.

[Mark]

about 5-6 years ago when I first got into pures, I made a 20 def account because I thought, "Hey, some of this 20 def gear gives nice bonuses towards offense and defense. I'ma try this ****." So I train up a bit, got like 40 40 20, and everywhere I trained other pures would constantly flame me and call me a fake pure just for having 20 defense. I gave that account up straight away

 

Look at where we are now? Clans with 30+ def full members. It's disgusting that people care that little about the history of pures that they'll do anything to justify a little defense.

 

 

"Oh I had a few accidents so I thought I'd round it off"

"Oh but it's for the offensive bonuses"

 

 

No.

 

If you get defense, at any time, for any intentional reason, you're not pure.

[Pooninranger]

Defence is for people who want to get hit less often on, sure its a good thing, but not as a pure. The only reason people dont train defence is to hit hard at a low level, and getting defence up will just ruin it for fellow pures.

[kosherkid]

I'm not going to do this, But I say 1-35 is fine. At 35 you get barrows gloves, But if you go over that, Even by one level you are a main nub.

 

I just wanna shake my head. Makes me so sad...

 

1 defence is pure. Anything above it is IMPURE.

 

This is the only true statement on this thread.

 

You know what 2 def is? A mistake. It's not really pure but eh its aight. 4 def is the highest I'd allow because your not getting any armor for it. But 5 defense is definitely not pure, and 10 defense is called a "Black Pure" which is about the same as "Rune Pure".

 

1 def or nothing. Sadly most clans don't realize this. And Mark is right. We have lost our history, due to a few bad updates by Jagex a lot of people panicked and then got defence solely for the purpose of warring. Pures are not about warring... they are about gaining a combat advantage at your level. When you gain defence you completely ruin this objective.

 

Now the word "pure" is unpure. No one understands what it means. When you only have a few people mention the fact that 1 def is the only pure thing... we've gone astray.

[King]

I don't see what's the hassle lol, 20-30 def might not be pure but it does give it's advantages. Which is why pure accounts were made. 30 def with turmoil with maxed stats, you'll be able to womp some 43s with dds. And i believe as long as your 30-35 def with turmoil then you fit in the pure category.

[Mark]

I don't see what's the hassle lol, 20-30 def might not be pure but it does give it's advantages. Which is why pure accounts were made. 30 def with turmoil with maxed stats, you'll be able to womp some 43s with dds. And i believe as long as your 30-35 def with turmoil then you fit in the pure category.

 

There people go again trying to justify intentional defense. If you want better bonuses then just get all the bonuses and be a rune pure instead. VH/HF/PX would be happy to take you

[Kaleb]

I just wanna shake my head. Makes me so sad...

 

 

 

This is the only true statement on this thread.

 

You know what 2 def is? A mistake. It's not really pure but eh its aight. 4 def is the highest I'd allow because your not getting any armor for it. But 5 defense is definitely not pure, and 10 defense is called a "Black Pure" which is about the same as "Rune Pure".

 

1 def or nothing. Sadly most clans don't realize this. And Mark is right. We have lost our history, due to a few bad updates by Jagex a lot of people panicked and then got defence solely for the purpose of warring. Pures are not about warring... they are about gaining a combat advantage at your level. When you gain defence you completely ruin this objective.

 

Now the word "pure" is unpure. No one understands what it means. When you only have a few people mention the fact that 1 def is the only pure thing... we've gone astray.

 

Clans had 20 defense before the PCL era: I believe Fi was known for their addy wielding leaders and numerous 20 defense members.

[Droolz]

Kick everyone in clans with 2 defense and over. You will see only 10-20 people left on each and every clans ML.

[Xtarantulax1]

I've been saying this for years.

[Ray]

Okay, there hasn't been any logical reasoning supporting higher def as pure, and the arguments denying certain defense levels as pure are rather lacking. I'm not surprised after seeing all the lack of intelligent posts on my teleporting topic. I think I can speak for every single intelligent individual on this forum when I say that I don't want to see any posts that contain an statement with no supporting evidence other than ridiculing all opposing views. Now anyways, I'll be here to discuss what actually is a pure.

 

Definition of Purity

 

What is a pure? A lot of people define it as a account with 1 defense, an account with 1-20 defense, and some people even define it as an account with 1-35 defense. The question is why defense? Let's say I make a new type of account called a Theta where you must have 30-40 strength and base a community around it. Would it be reasonable? Absolutely not, because I just arbitrarily chose a requirement. That's the exact same thing that is wrong with the pure world today. People choose the defense requirement entirely arbitrarily with no logical reasoning, only that it has been a tradition.

 

The purpose that 1 defense accounts were made back then was to have the best possible pking build at a given level. That means that if you face a random opponent, you will have the greatest chances of winning with a pure build. It has nothing to do with having low defense, or having a build strictly for offensive bonuses. It just so happens that offense bonuses help you win fights more than defense bonuses, that's why everyone is so adamant with the idea of low defense and we should break out of that habit. If certain defensive gear helps you win fights more than the counterpart offensive gear does, then having the higher def would be more pure.

 

Why is it essential that we must maximize our potential at our level? It's because of the way pvp/bh works. We are only able to fight others that are around our level. When you are fighting someone the same level as you, it is very advantageous that you have better stats than they do. The combat level system in Runescape is only a vague estimation of your combat abilities. It is a pure's job to exploit the combat level calculation system in their favor in order to attain the maximum combat capabilities at the lowest combat level.

 

So for the rest of this post, I will use this definition of being a pure:

Pure - An account with a combination of stats which allows for the greatest winning potential in a single 1 vs 1 fight excluding maxed out accounts.

 

General Rules of Purity

A pure is the best possible build at a certain level. Most people argue that to be a pure, you have to have 60- attack, 52- pray, 1 def, etc. What if I want to be the best possible build at a higher level, say 90? Then I would have to raise some stats don't I? If I build correctly to become the best possible account at lvl 90, then I would still be pure, just a higher level one. If I wanted to be the best possible account at level 20, there would be a specific build that would be best for level 20 as well. Yes, that does mean that 45 defense is pure, but it's a different type of pure. We call them Rune Pures. We do not fight Rune Pures in single or in wars, unless of course you have high attack/pray which makes you a different type of pure. Just because we are all classified under the name pure does not make us the same though. We all seek to achieve the same purpose, but we are not associated due to our level differences. The type of pure that we are interested in is the type with low defense.

 

Pures in F2P

What is the best possible build in f2p? It is 40 defense. I am 1 defense and I kill 40 defers all the time, and I'm sure that a lot of other 1 def pures here kill 40 defers all the time as well, but one thing that we can agree on is that they have a much higher chance of winning. An account with 40 attack and 40 defense will beat any 1 defense account in every single fight outside a very lucky hit. By my definition of being a pure, 40 defense is definitely the most pure in f2p, or 60 defense if you use corrupt dragon armor. There is another factor though. In f2p, the only fights worth fighting are fights without armor. Defense in f2p degrades pking entirely. Even though 40 defense will beat 1 defense, any fight where one or two of the combatants are in armor is a fight not worth fighting. For this reason, in f2p, 1 defense is the only pure.

 

Pures in P2P

Now this is where is gets interesting. There is no single definition of a p2p pure since there are many viable options. I will first go over what builds are pure and then what builds are not pure and explanations on why. I will classify everything as low, mid, and high level pures. Note that this is NOT the same classifications as we use, I am just simply using them as names.

 

Low Level Pures

 

60- Attack

52- Prayer

1 Defense

 

This is the most basic pure. The highest level they can attain is level 83. No matter what level their primary stats are, they will usually be the most formidable build.

 

Mid Level Pures

 

75-99 Attack

~99 Str

52-99 Pray

1 Defense

 

This is a pure with their offensive stats maxed out. With whips, godswords, and saradomin swords, they have an extremely high damage output for their level. They are too high to fight low level pures and for that reason they are classified as mid level pures/

 

60- Attack

~99 Atr/Range

52- Pray

45 Defense

 

This is the lower level rune pure. At 45 defense, you have tons of new options available. The only contender you have is the other mid level pure build. For that reason, these two builds are in the same category.

 

High Level Pures

 

~99 Attack

~99 Str

45 Defense

 

Melee option that you see in HF/VH/PX

 

150- Attack + Str

~99 Range

~99 Def

 

Range option you see in HF/VH/PX.

 

Impure Builds

 

13 Defense

A lot of people get 13 defense for rune gloves, but I think that it is just an excuse to wear better armor in wars. Rune gloves do nothing on top of adamant gloves. They give an additional +1 strength bonus which does not even affect your max hit at most levels. It's just the very odd level that makes it go up by one. The 13 defense costs 3 combat levels worth of defense. Your opponents will all have 6 more range, 9 more str, 12 more def, or a combination of them, but all you get is a measly +1 str bonus and black armor.

 

34 Defense

Barrows gloves isn't much better than rune gloves. You are getting +4 str bonus for 8 combat levels. The question is, does that make you the best at your combat level? The simple answer is absolutely not. Let's say you have 99 attack and 99 str. Your 45 defense counterpart will have 99 str and 91 attack. So when you are fighting a rune pure, they will have higher accuracy, damage, and defense than you, and they also have lunar. You are not just losing in one aspect, you are worse in every single way.

 

80 str/range 45 defense

If you are not maxed or almost maxed and you have 45 defense, you are not pure and you should not be pking. If you did not get the 45 defense and got higher primary stats instead putting you at the same level, you would be much better off. Until you max yourself out, you are not pure.

 

20 Defense

I'm not going to argue why 20 defense is not pure. I'm sure everyone out there with 20 defense even knows it.

 

75 Attack

A 75 attack pure is still pretty good, and definitely a viable option, but the levels that it gives you leaves range being an nonviable option. That's why I am hesitant to put 75 attack is perfectly pure. The extra combat levels it gives you makes you fight people with higher defense. Dscim and dds are fine, and you can also use them in a non +1 world unlike SS/GS.

 

Pures in Clans

 

Okay, enough about solo pking and onto warring. This is where purity is important to the pure community. We have to set standards on what is acceptable in wars and what is not.

 

Among the 3 categories of pures that I listed, we can automatically assume that low level pures are acceptable and high level pures are not. As for the mid level pures, I would accept the 99atk/str/1 def and not the 45 def one. The reason is that in pure wars, there is almost no difference between 99 attack and 60 attack. The only time it makes a difference is when attacking mithlords, but that doesn't mean 99 attack is impure, it means 20 defense is impure. If someone happens to have up to 25 defense, they must wear 1 defense gear. Having everyone in 10 defense gear is not a compromise. Having everyone in 1 defense gear is close to a compromise, but people with defense still have an advantage. I really don't know why people think that 10 defense wars is fair to both 20 defers and 1 defers. It is not at all fair. 1 def wars is close to fair, but a 25 defer wearing iron still tanks a lot longer than he should.

 

As a summary, this is what the standard of pure clans should be:

 

Pures

60- Attack

52- Pray

1 Def

 

Discouraged Pures

60+ Attack

or

52+Pray

or

5-25 Def (Must wear 1 defense armor)

 

The reason why I believe that discouraged pures can still be allowed in wars is because having high attack and prayer makes little difference. They cannot war with rune pures because not having defense does make a considerable difference when warring. If they have defense, then they must wear 1 defense gear. The advantage that 25 def gear gives above 1 def gear is same as the advantage that 45 def gear gives above 25 def gear. It is unfair to the 1 defense people.

 

It is 3:30 am now, I'm going to sleep and finishing this up later today. Feel free to comment now.

[MEETUATLUMB]

sorry we don't really need your wall of text, back in the day this was a pure:

someone who PUREly trained one skill, eg strength (of course they'd have say 40 attack for a rune scimitar or whatever), or someone who PUREly trained ranged.

then there were hybrids, who trained two of the offensive stats, and i guess all rounders or whatever, who trained all strength, ranged and magic.

 

Also, back in the day (rsc days) a pure had little to no prayer, no magic, and no defence, CLEARLY maximising their offense

[Rhys]

30 defence isn't pure. DONE

*points at your leader*

[Levi]

40 has had those bonuses for awhile some people are just figuring out what you can get at 30 def (Rune gloves, Ancient prayers) or 35 def (Barrows Gloves, Agility armor).

[Ray]

sorry we don't really need your wall of text, back in the day this was a pure:

someone who PUREly trained one skill, eg strength (of course they'd have say 40 attack for a rune scimitar or whatever), or someone who PUREly trained ranged.

then there were hybrids, who trained two of the offensive stats, and i guess all rounders or whatever, who trained all strength, ranged and magic.

 

Also, back in the day (rsc days) a pure had little to no prayer, no magic, and no defence, CLEARLY maximising their offense

 

I think you are taking things too literally. The idea of a pure has nothing to do with the literal meaning of the word pure. That's just what it was derived from. The idea of a pure has changed a lot from back then, but we still use the same word just for the sake of tradition.

 

The purpose of a pure back then was the maximize their offense, but the purpose of maximizing their offense was to be be the best possible pker for their level. If we stick to having maximum offense, then we will lose touch of what is pure. So to stay pure, we must have the most optimal defense level, not the lowest one.

['Peter]

Even though i am 30 defence and currently in a clan, i don't see myself as pure, 1-20 is pure IMO, Still i love having 30.

[hi im 35 def]

EOP has like 6 addy

IR has 3 addy?

E has like 10 addy plus 2 31 def as plode told me.

TLP idk has alot

Fi has alot.

[once phailed]

No one really set in stone a definition of a pure.

 

Until that is done - which will never happen because of the big headed people - your argument is invalid.

 

Just pointing that out, although I agree with what you're saying.

 

strength/range/magic make you pure (they make you hit harder)

 

Attack/defence/hp/prayer give bonuses so therefor training these stats makes you impure as your not training to hit harder but to aquire bonus (idk how hp fits into this but it was on one of the first guides ever written).

 

 

-25def or gtfo (some people make mistakes and I can take 25). I wish we could get together as a community and force clans to boot 25+def members, well not boot but agressively encourage them to)

 

People saying "addy is your daddy" are killing our community, go **** off to higher force :)

[Pal]

By your logic 70 defence is more pure than 20 defence since you can use piety. This is the stupidest reasoning I've heard

 

The amount of defence you sacrifice defines purity, not the amount of defence you attain to achieve offensive power.

 

if pure clans accepted 70 defence with piety, then it'd be more pure than 20 defence