Homosexuality..

[Keith]

I am catholic and i believe that the only person who has the right to judge another human being is God.

 

This is why your respected. :wub:

 

What, amongst retards?

 

He answered the question so neither gay/religious people would be offended.

 

 

I think you're funny, can't even flame correctly. :confused:

 

Define 'Retards', would you fit the meaing?

 

Success

[M4G1CA]

I am catholic and i believe that the only person who has the right to judge another human being is God.

 

This is why your respected. :wub:

 

What, amongst retards?

 

He answered the question so neither gay/religious people would be offended.

 

 

I think you're funny, can't even flame correctly. :confused:

 

Define 'Retards', would you fit the meaing?

 

Success

h4h4h4 u a good trol h4h4h4

[Davey]

I found out that animals can have feelings for the same sex aswell.

[Kingrang3194]

wow i can't belive what ppl voted

[`kG]

i dont believe in same sex marriage or homosexuality, doesnt make me homophobic as well, i have a straight rights as well and i dont judge them, its thier life, and respect my life as straight

[Zee]

when you guys are talking about homosexuality think of our fundamentals: for Jewish, Islamic and Christians we all come from adam and eve, so it was meant to be men and women, its written in the Scriptures. for evolutionists we all come from a man and woman. so why would it be right to be with the same gender? Guys the world has went astray today in 2012, before it was a crime if u were a homosexual,now its a luxury .. I don't want to offend anyone. I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't like what they're doing..

[Nippon]

when you guys are talking about homosexuality think of our fundamentals: for Jewish, Islamic and Christians we all come from adam and eve, so it was meant to be men and women, its written in the Scriptures. for evolutionists we all come from a man and woman. so why would it be right to be with the same gender? Guys the world has went astray today in 2012, before it was a crime if u were a homosexual,now its a luxury .. I don't want to offend anyone. I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't like what they're doing..

 

Do you oppose masturbation as well? Clearly semen is supposed to go into a woman's ******, as nature intended. What about birth control? Certainly you'd oppose the unnatural waste of this God-given right to reproduce? If you are consistent in your principles in this manner, I greet you as a fellow man although your values are very different from mine. If you pick and choose your values from the moral basket called scripture you are nothing but a despisable puppet to me.

 

Here is where I stand:

 

Anything that two people choose to do wilfully with no harm to each other or others, is not(in my eyes) only right as opposed to wrong, it is the right of all rights. It is a derivative of the fundamental principle that guides any and all moral values I have; the right to personal freedom and self-determination. Therefore, while I respect your freedom to hold your principle of only having a **** inside a woman's ****** as a means to reproduction as the only correct way of sexual behavior, I can and will not respect any attempt from your part to limit the freedom of others to put their **** inside whatever the f they want for whatever reasons they have. If any of this remains unclear, please let me know and I'll attempt to rephrase.

[Zee]

when you guys are talking about homosexuality think of our fundamentals: for Jewish, Islamic and Christians we all come from adam and eve, so it was meant to be men and women, its written in the Scriptures. for evolutionists we all come from a man and woman. so why would it be right to be with the same gender? Guys the world has went astray today in 2012, before it was a crime if u were a homosexual,now its a luxury .. I don't want to offend anyone. I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't like what they're doing..

 

Do you oppose masturbation as well? Clearly semen is supposed to go into a woman's ******, as nature intended. What about birth control? Certainly you'd oppose the unnatural waste of this God-given right to reproduce? If you are consistent in your principles in this manner, I greet you as a fellow man although your values are very different from mine. If you pick and choose your values from the moral basket called scripture you are nothing but a despisable puppet to me.

 

Here is where I stand:

 

Anything that two people choose to do wilfully with no harm to each other or others, is not(in my eyes) only right as opposed to wrong, it is the right of all rights. It is a derivative of the fundamental principle that guides any and all moral values I have; the right to personal freedom and self-determination. Therefore, while I respect your freedom to hold your principle of only having a **** inside a woman's ****** as a means to reproduction as the only correct way of sexual behavior, I can and will not respect any attempt from your part to limit the freedom of others to put their **** inside whatever the f they want for whatever reasons they have. If any of this remains unclear, please let me know and I'll attempt to rephrase.

 

u have ur beliefs, and I have mine. I believe in the holy bible and that's what's written .. just because I follow Scriptures, it doesn't make me a puppet. its like if ur saying because I follow civil laws I'm a puppet .. I have made my point clear and if u need any explanations don't mind asking me..

 

[Nippon]

u have ur beliefs, and I have mine. I believe in the holy bible and that's what's written .. just because I follow Scriptures, it doesn't make me a puppet. its like if ur saying because I follow civil laws I'm a puppet .. I have made my point clear and if u need any explanations don't mind asking me..

 

If you base your moral values on civil laws, you are indeed nothing but a mindless doll. You follow scripture or laws, I follow my concscience and my mind.

 

I see you didn't answer any of my questions nor address any of my points, as expected. One day you will realize that God is dead, on that day you will be lost and miserable unless you choose to find human.

[`Mo]

u have ur beliefs, and I have mine. I believe in the holy bible and that's what's written .. just because I follow Scriptures, it doesn't make me a puppet. its like if ur saying because I follow civil laws I'm a puppet .. I have made my point clear and if u need any explanations don't mind asking me..

 

If you base your moral values on civil laws, you are indeed nothing but a mindless doll. You follow scripture or laws, I follow my concscience and my mind.

 

I see you didn't answer any of my questions nor address any of my points, as expected. One day you will realize that God is dead, on that day you will be lost and miserable unless you choose to find human.

You can never find or say that god is dead, for a simple fact that you cannot prove it. It's faith, sometimes it can be broken but it doesn't mean it will.

 

The fact is people care about other people's views too much, I believe in a god but I don't force down anything down anyone's throat. In terms of homosexuals, I agree with what bloody said. I'm not here to judge, everyone has a will and a free mind, that's what god gave us, otherwise what would be the whole point of us being here if we didn't have no free will. So I don't care what they do as long as they don't steer me out of my goal.

 

And just so you know, most people run away from humans, they don't turn to humans, due to the fact that they always get hurt, because humans have this scary mind that they can do so many things so I don't agree with you by saying you'll choose human. But obviously this is to its extent I just wanted to prove my point.

 

[Nippon]

u have ur beliefs, and I have mine. I believe in the holy bible and that's what's written .. just because I follow Scriptures, it doesn't make me a puppet. its like if ur saying because I follow civil laws I'm a puppet .. I have made my point clear and if u need any explanations don't mind asking me..

 

If you base your moral values on civil laws, you are indeed nothing but a mindless doll. You follow scripture or laws, I follow my concscience and my mind.

 

I see you didn't answer any of my questions nor address any of my points, as expected. One day you will realize that God is dead, on that day you will be lost and miserable unless you choose to find human.

You can never find or say that god is dead, for a simple fact that you cannot prove it. It's faith, sometimes it can be broken but it doesn't mean it will.

 

The fact is people care about other people's views too much, I believe in a god but I don't force down anything down anyone's throat. In terms of homosexuals, I agree with what bloody said. I'm not here to judge, everyone has a will and a free mind, that's what god gave us, otherwise what would be the whole point of us being here if we didn't have no free will. So I don't care what they do as long as they don't steer me out of my goal.

 

And just so you know, most people run away from humans, they don't turn to humans, due to the fact that they always get hurt, because humans have this scary mind that they can do so many things so I don't agree with you by saying you'll choose human. But obviously this is to its extent I just wanted to prove my point.

 

What I ment with God is dead is what Friedrich Nietzsche ment when he announced this in his work in the 19th century. Namely, not that God is literally dead, but that the modern man had forsaken the scriptures as the ultimate source for moral values. God is dead, the ideal of a transcendental supreme being no longer controls the thought of men, men are free to find their moral values in their own conscience and mind. This, I believe, is something that Zee Kevin above has not yet realized.

 

Again you mistake my purpose when I say choose to find human. What I mean is not that you should look for anything in others, but that you should find humanity in yourself, find the things that separate you from a puppet or a mindless beast, create yourself and overcome yourself in an endless process, find your ideals and excel in them. What makes us human? Creativity and imagination. This is what lacks in all other forms of life. Creating, ourselves and our values, this is what makes us human.

[Davey]

If god is not dead, then what is he?

[Zee]

u have ur beliefs, and I have mine. I believe in the holy bible and that's what's written .. just because I follow Scriptures, it doesn't make me a puppet. its like if ur saying because I follow civil laws I'm a puppet .. I have made my point clear and if u need any explanations don't mind asking me..

 

If you base your moral values on civil laws, you are indeed nothing but a mindless doll. You follow scripture or laws, I follow my concscience and my mind.

 

I see you didn't answer any of my questions nor address any of my points, as expected. One day you will realize that God is dead, on that day you will be lost and miserable unless you choose to find human.

You can never find or say that god is dead, for a simple fact that you cannot prove it. It's faith, sometimes it can be broken but it doesn't mean it will.

 

The fact is people care about other people's views too much, I believe in a god but I don't force down anything down anyone's throat. In terms of homosexuals, I agree with what bloody said. I'm not here to judge, everyone has a will and a free mind, that's what god gave us, otherwise what would be the whole point of us being here if we didn't have no free will. So I don't care what they do as long as they don't steer me out of my goal.

 

And just so you know, most people run away from humans, they don't turn to humans, due to the fact that they always get hurt, because humans have this scary mind that they can do so many things so I don't agree with you by saying you'll choose human. But obviously this is to its extent I just wanted to prove my point.

 

What I ment with God is dead is what Friedrich Nietzsche ment when he announced this in his work in the 19th century. Namely, not that God is literally dead, but that the modern man had forsaken the scriptures as the ultimate source for moral values. God is dead, the ideal of a transcendental supreme being no longer controls the thought of men, men are free to find their moral values in their own conscience and mind. This, I believe, is something that Zee Kevin above has not yet realized.

 

Again you mistake my purpose when I say choose to find human. What I mean is not that you should look for anything in others, but that you should find humanity in yourself, find the things that separate you from a puppet or a mindless beast, create yourself and overcome yourself in an endless process, find your ideals and excel in them. What makes us human? Creativity and imagination. This is what lacks in all other forms of life. Creating, ourselves and our values, this is what makes us human.

 

What are you implying ?

[Zee]

If god is not dead, then what is he?

 

alive

[Nippon]

What are you implying ?

 

That by not acknowledging your freedom to choose your own values independent of religional or social institutions, you are rejecting the very thing that makes you human. That by locking yourself to a set of objective(fixed) values you are halting all mental and spiritual progress that you could have as a human being.

That by imposing your values on others you are limiting their chances in the same progress, the more(less) influential you are, the more(less) you hinder them.

 

 

If god is not dead, then what is he?

 

That is something that I can't and don't want to answer for you. If I managed to persuade you of the nature of a god or another, I'd be no better than those institutions that I oppose. We can have a theological argument, but I will not have it here because it's not the topic of the discussion. We are talking about the God of values here (the God of anti-homosexuality, to be precise), in this sense, God is dead. We killed him.

[Nippon]

For the sake of my point, I'll demonstrate here how I arrive at the conclusion "homosexuality is ok"

 

I will use antithesis: "Why should homosexuality not be ok?" I will approach the issue first from a pragmatic point of view, secondly from a ethical point of view.

 

To answer this, I'll ask three more questions:

1. Does homosexuality offend other people?

2. Does accepting homosexuality increase homosexuality?

3. Does not accepting homosexuality decrease homosexuality?

 

I'll answer them

1. Seemingly yes, the thought of homosexuality seems to be repulsive and offensive to some people

2. According to all empiria, no

3. According to all empiria, no

 

1. seems to be the only practical argument against homosexuality. To counter this, I must ask one more question

I. Is homosexuality something that can be changed?

 

Answer

I. According to all empiria, no, it can not.

 

 

Next I will make my ethical argument by asking:

Is homosexuality something that should be changed? -> Do I have the right to demand a change in sexuality from another human being? -> Is my sexuality better than his/her sexuality?

 

No. I didn't choose my sexuality, nor did he or she. I have no right to the moral claim that my sexuality is in any way better than his/her.

 

 

So to conclude

Homosexuality is not something that should be changed, nor is it something that could be changed, therefore it should and must be accepted and therefore "homosexuality is ok"

Q.E.D

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Now, the thought chain above is obvious to anyone who creates their own values, a similar but usually more complex thought chain takes place in every choice we make, if we are men, not sheep, as Socrates put it.

[`Mo]

For the sake of my point, I'll demonstrate here how I arrive at the conclusion "homosexuality is ok"

 

I will use antithesis: "Why should homosexuality not be ok?" I will approach the issue first from a pragmatic point of view, secondly from a ethical point of view.

 

To answer this, I'll ask three more questions:

1. Does homosexuality offend other people?

2. Does accepting homosexuality increase homosexuality?

3. Does not accepting homosexuality decrease homosexuality?

 

I'll answer them

1. Seemingly yes, the thought of homosexuality seems to be repulsive and offensive to some people

2. According to all empiria, no

3. According to all empiria, no

 

1. seems to be the only practical argument against homosexuality. To counter this, I must ask one more question

I. Is homosexuality something that can be changed?

 

Answer

I. According to all empiria, no, it can not.

 

 

Next I will make my ethical argument by asking:

Is homosexuality something that should be changed? -> Do I have the right to demand a change in sexuality from another human being? -> Is my sexuality better than his/her sexuality?

 

No. I didn't choose my sexuality, nor did he or she. I have no right to the moral claim that my sexuality is in any way better than his/her.

 

 

So to conclude

Homosexuality is not something that should be changed, nor is it something that could be changed, therefore it should and must be accepted and therefore "homosexuality is ok"

Q.E.D

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Now, the thought chain above is obvious to anyone who creates their own values, a similar but usually more complex thought chain takes place in every choice we make, if we are men, not sheep, as Socrates put it.

How I see Homosexuality is that I have no problem with that person who's born gay/*******. That person did not have a choice of choosing their sexual preferences, therefore it would be illogical to see that person any differently.

 

The fact why most religions don't agree with homosexuals is this or at least from my religion: Way way back in time a group of men who were STRAIGHT were in the desert without no women. Though they were straight they felt like women did not satisfy their needs, so they turned to men, and that's what I think religion is trying to say. If you're born straight, why would you turn gay? And the same versa.

 

Also the fact is humans have always been free minded and creative. However, many years you go back this has been the case. So in a sense you could say god has always been 'dead'. What I'm saying people who believe in a god don't necessarily mean they're being 'restricted'. They have a free mind and they chose a pathway different to yours, it does not mean they're less creative or if they're a slave.

[Nippon]

How I see Homosexuality is that I have no problem with that person who's born gay/*******. That person did not have a choice of choosing their sexual preferences, therefore it would be illogical to see that person any differently.

 

The fact why most religions don't agree with homosexuals is this or at least from my religion: Way way back in time a group of men who were STRAIGHT were in the desert without no women. Though they were straight they felt like women did not satisfy their needs, so they turned to men, and that's what I think religion is trying to say. If you're born straight, why would you turn gay? And the same versa.

 

Also the fact is humans have always been free minded and creative. However, many years you go back this has been the case. So in a sense you could say god has always been 'dead'. What I'm saying people who believe in a god don't necessarily mean they're being 'restricted'. They have a free mind and they chose a pathway different to yours, it does not mean they're less creative or if they're a slave.

 

You are wrong. Study history, and you will notice that for the most part of the last two millenia in the West people have been substantially less free minded and creative, by any standards. This has been a sum of many things. On a practical level, people were too busy making a living to consider their values throughoutly, on the other hand they were too uneducated to do so. Without public education, every man would have to reinvent the wheel so to speak, and not every man has the mental capacity of Socrates. On the other hand, the lack of public, widespread education and limits on the logistics of information ment that whenever those ideas did sprout, they never spread widely among people, as such they died unnoticed.

 

This went on at least until Descartes came along with his cartesian dualism and subjectivity. Coincidental or not, the time was right in many ways. The printing press, technological progress especially in agriculture, etc. All of it shows in restropective that the society was ready to move forward. From this moment some 500 years ago began the process that has presented us with ideas such as human rights and individualism, things that the Roman catholic church violently opposed then and still, albeit less violently, opposes now. Humanism, insofar as we know here in the West, as an ideology is actually very new in the history of mankind.*

 

I'm not making a statement about the existence of a metaphysical entity. Try to look past the methaforical phrase God is dead to see its meaning and how evidently it escapes a great amount of religious fanatics in the West as much so as in the more criticized Islamic nations. It's the greatest hypocrisy of our time that we promote democratic secularism in Islamic nations, as seen during the Arab spring, yet we fail to acknowledge the same faults in our own society and in ourselves.

 

 

 

*One could here remind me of my earlier statements regarding objective values be they of religious or any other origin. I admit my fault, but for the sake of my point I'll only aim to show the first step

[Derp]

It doesn't really affect me and no one is forcing me to be gay lol. Even though I think homosexuality is wrong because of my religious beliefs, I personally think that humans are entitled to certain freedoms, and if being gay makes them happy so be it.

 

Who cares if they get married. According to my beliefs, divorce is also wrong so should that be made illegal? That is why we have separation of church and state, so the church does not oppress those who don't follow certain beliefs.

 

I see so much hypocrisy...

[Scott]

It doesn't really affect me and no one is forcing me to be gay lol. Even though I think homosexuality is wrong because of my religious beliefs, I personally think that humans are entitled to certain freedoms, and if being gay makes them happy so be it.

 

Who cares if they get married. According to my beliefs, divorce is also wrong so should that be made illegal? That is why we have separation of church and state, so the church does not oppress those who don't follow certain beliefs.

 

I see so much hypocrisy...

 

A religious person with sense? You are an intelligent man.

 

It kind of worries me that so many people can be against homosexuality in a modern society which openly accepts it. The people who still think its "wrong" are definitely living in the past and need to open their eyes.

[Youbleed]

Okay to you who don't "hate" it when in all reality you do. Seriously if you didn't , why the hell will it bother you? Obvious Hate. Look i'm not gay or whatever you guys call it. But man think about it. They're not doing it to you or me so why the hell are you mad because one person is happy?

[Bond]

It doesn't really affect me and no one is forcing me to be gay lol. Even though I think homosexuality is wrong because of my religious beliefs, I personally think that humans are entitled to certain freedoms, and if being gay makes them happy so be it.

 

Who cares if they get married. According to my beliefs, divorce is also wrong so should that be made illegal? That is why we have separation of church and state, so the church does not oppress those who don't follow certain beliefs.

 

I see so much hypocrisy...

 

A religious person with sense? You are an intelligent man.

 

It kind of worries me that so many people can be against homosexuality in a modern society which openly accepts it. The people who still think its "wrong" are definitely living in the past and need to open their eyes.

 

Almost everyone in our age group accepts it, it's the older people that currently hold all the power that don't. And you can't blame them - they've lived for 60+ years where there was no Internet or other means of gaining knowledge for oneself, and everyone mindlessly followed what adults told them.

 

Now, if a 10 year old was curious about something, they can google it and have the answer in 10 seconds or less. Back when our parents and grandparents were growing up, if an adult withheld information from a kid, they wouldn't learn the truth for YEARS.

 

It's only a matter of time before it is legalized, like it or not. Not to beat a dead horse, but I think it is disgusting, but that in no way gives me the power to tell others what to do.

[em4en]

nice debate question!!!! gay people are people!!!!

[♥ Sandra ♥]

Find it funny how most of you guys are only talking about gay males and not about lesbians. Hypocrisy.

[em4en]

Find it funny how most of you guys are only talking about gay males and not about lesbians. Hypocrisy.

nice thoughts but the word gays also refer to lesbians as well!! nice!!!!